The Magic of Madia

Jesse and Jenn sat down with Madia expecting the conversation to begin and end with birds. But immediately the magic of tapping, EFT, or Emotional Freedom Technique, came up and off we went. 

There is a FANTASTIC mini-episode that spun out of our initial conversation, so look for that next week!

One quote from Madia I came back to again and again after we quit recording? 

"You can't give yourself messages you won't believe."

Wow.

Please have a listen to BOTH episodes. Madia is something special.

Special Guest Links

Madia on Substack

Madia's book, The Impractical Guide to Keeping Geese: How & why to raise the world's most underrated and unfairly criticized domestic bird

Madia on Instagram

The Emerald podcast

Animal Speak: The Spiritual and Magical Powers of Creatures Great and Small, Ted Andrews

 
The Nuthatch: https://open.substack.com/pub/ornis/p/the-nuthatch?r=47trr4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

 https://ornis.substack.com/p/sight-on-site?r=47trr4

Listen to the Birds (notes on ornithomancy): https://ornis.substack.com/p/listen-to-the-birds?r=47trr4

If you are searching for a fresh, binge-able podcast, this might be the one for you!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:18

Before we got on, Madia, uh, Jen and I were talking about what our class songs were. So we wanted to know what yours was. My class song?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, do you remember that from senior year of high school?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

When you graduated high school.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Gosh, I don't know that we had one. I kind of had a weird senior year though, because I actually moved my senior year of high school. My family moved. And so I don't know. I wasn't really connected with my new school very much. I was just kind of trying to get through. So if they have a song.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I don't know what that is a brutal year. Well you have to move. If you could pick one, pick one.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Oh gosh. Uh well, I'll tell you what, the thing that comes to my mind right off the top of my head is um uh what is it? Time of time of your life, time of my life, but is that green? Is it green day? I'm terrible with these things. I should I should know this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

That's it. Yeah, that's the that's a friends song. Oh, it is. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

I never even thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And I didn't watch Friends, so look at me. What?

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Yeah, how could you not? So you don't even know the references. Do you know the cultural references? Like, this is ridiculous to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I was like, look at the look at these look at these lofts that they live in in New York City, and like where is all this? I can't afford them from. Yeah, no, yeah, it was ridiculous to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Oh my god, you're such a realist. I love that you can dip into other things that are very woo, but all of a sudden, friends being in a loft that they couldn't afford is the thing they get to.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, friends was way too over the line for me, okay? And yeah, and I you know what, and and God bless her, but I I don't I don't understand Lisa Coudreau. Although I do like Rome and Michelle, so there you go. Oh, isn't that a great movie?

SPEAKER_04 2:04

That's a happy movie.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

That makes it a great movie. And I'm there with you, Jesse. I actually never really watched Friends. I saw a few episodes, but I wasn't I did it in college.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

It was like one of the things that we watched in college. The other one that we would try to find a TV for is um so in Seattle, we had, you know, everybody knows Saturday Night Live, you know, the big show. But before that, Seattle had a local one called Almost Live, and it was so good because they were like these crazy stand-up comedians in the Seattle area, and we knew all the places, and grunge was just coming on the scene, though we were always out at the clubs and everything. And so it was just like we felt like that was our favorite thing to watch, almost live. I wonder if that's on YouTube now, almost live.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

I bet. I mean, we we had to watch, we had to watch Melrose Plays before we went out to the club on Thursday. That was our thing. We all got together and watched Melrose Place. We just wanted to watch like ridiculous, like and everybody be catty at each other. Yeah, so yeah, that was it. That was our thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

So this week, wait, we have to do this official. We have Mahdia here, magical, magical Mahdia. And um, all I know is that we're gonna talk about birds and bird magic and maybe what birds like seeing them can tell us. And I've been making a list, I did some homework, Mahdia, of like the birds I've seen in the last 24 hours. Oh boy, yeah, right. Just to kind of get, you know, just get a vibe going. And Jesse, did you do your homework?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Allow me to flip the bird last night, too. All right. That this is uh Mahdia says subconscious healing through tapping, chant, and bird medicine, Jen. Are you ready for that? Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

Tapping is a whole nother level of magic. It it tell okay, I cannot believe that because I have goosebumps all over my arms. It was a place where I found serenity after my dad died was tapping. It took me out of the monkey mind and into something deeper that wasn't so on the surface, hurting, hurting, hurting. So so birds, you have to go in the background for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I don't have any goosebumps because I don't know what tapping is, and I've already talked to Mahdia like twice. So I mean, uh, you know, let's start with that then. Don't know the term, so she needs to crack an egg and knowledge on our asses right now about tapping.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, so tapping is just uh its most simple definition, right? Is tapping on uh they're they're acupuncture points, really, or meridian points on the body, and it's literally tapping, you're tapping on yourself. Uh, I have been trained in a specific modality called EFT or emotional freedom technique. And it was developed by uh Gary Craig, I think back in the 60s or 70s to treat PTSD in uh soldiers. And and it's a specific sequence of points that you're that you're doing in that particular modality. You can use tapping. I mean, I think tapping in general are you can use it in in different ways. Uh, you don't have to do the specific uh protocol that EFT uses, but that's what I'm trained in. Um and yeah, I I agree, Jen, like it's so simple. It is so simple. And all you're doing is talking to yourself while you're tapping these points. And what it does is it helps you uh kind of facilitate and release a lot of stuck emotional energy. And it just, and the I mean, I I don't know what else to say about it because it it is that simple. You go through the points, you tap on the points while you talk to yourself, and you just acknowledge how you're feeling. You know, even though I feel anxious because of this thing I have coming up, I accept where I am. So it's acknowledging that you feel a way, accepting that you feel that way, just being like, hey, I'm here. I feel this way. I'm acknowledging that I have this rather than trying to suppress it or ignore it. And yeah, it's pretty simple. And it can be powerful too, because as you're going through the tapping, as you're acknowledging these emotions and these beliefs, you can often get into pretty deep levels. You don't have to go there, but um, things can come up, you know, because it's it's getting into your subconscious mind. So you're starting to peel away layers and uncover. Okay, maybe I have this feeling about this thing right now because I actually have this belief that I'm not, I don't know, good at public speaking because in fourth grade I had this experience with my teacher, and they said this thing and it made me feel this way. Oh, well, now we have a memory we can work through. So then you tap through the memory and then you release that memory, and it's kind of this deep healing. But I'll tell you what, I I've been in therapy before, and tapping has helped me through so many issues within a matter of days that I spent years in therapy trying to overcome.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Because the body remembers, right? The body remembers and it holds that.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Does it have more to do with the plexus point? The plexus areas, or like in other words, branching out from the sh the chakras where the you know the interconnections is that it or is it are there different you know, Jesse?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

I don't know that there's a direct uh correlation between shock the chakra system and the and the meridian points that you're tapping on. There there very well could be, because you start with the crown. Um, well, some people you can start here. I like to start with the the top of the head because to me it kind of opens the crown chakra. So from my from my uh other touches into, I don't know, other other systems. I I kind of naturally, I don't know, I feel like you do that in this space, right? You start to learn about all these different systems and then you kind of naturally start to integrate them or see the relationship between them, right? Um officially EFT, I don't think really equates the the meridian tapping points specifically with the chakras. But yeah, like there's the the top of the head, or what I would say the crown, there's this point here, which maybe you could say that's third eye. I don't know. Um right. Uh then there's like the side here um on the temples, this bone underneath the eyes. Um, this point under the nose and um between the nose and the upper lip. You've got the crease, this crease of the chin here, and then you've got this uh chest. Uh well, it's not really your chest, it's kind of a couple inches below the isn't that like this?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Is that the solar plexus? I'm not sure. No, that's lower.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

It's the solar plexus is lower.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe this could be considered heart. I don't know. Yeah, it feels like it would be different. But and then there's this point here that's kind of a few inches under your um armpit, a few inches down from your armpit. For women, it would be where your bra strap is approximately. And there's this point here. There is also a point that is basically right under, simply like right under where your your boobs are. Um and it's it's an official tapping point within EFT, but it's not often used because it's considered a little awkward, you know, especially if you're working with women.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I think that's the solar plexus down there, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Possibly. When you're getting closer to your belly button, that's more solar plexus.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, there are other points. You tell I'm not Mr. Anatomy. I don't know. Yeah, as far as like where bones and things go. I don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, but there are other tapping points too that don't correspond with the chauffeurs really at all. Like um, you can use their ankle as a tapping point. Um, this is often used within EFT uh to like if someone's going into an ab reaction, so that's when they are going into a memory and they feel as though they're actually there and their emotions get very, very intense, right? And you kind of have to gently bring them back to the present. Yeah. Um, often the ankle can be used as a way to kind of ground them back into the present. Wow. Uh and then there's also when you start tapping, it's on the side of the hand here. And then there's also this um, this point here between the pinky and the ring. And then you can also tap on the sides of the fingers.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

But well, when you were saying about how it did more for you very quickly than years of therapy, I got it's like a sonic hair. You know, if anybody uses a sonic hair toothbrush, it's like it the body remembers and we're kind of loosening up what's calcified and what's calcified sometimes in us around different parts of our body is trauma. Um, it's it's memories, it's things that are kind of holding us back. And I feel like what you're saying, it uh, you know, why you start with the crown, it's almost like you're settling into your human vessel. And then the ankle thing, I think a lot of people out there are um maybe subconsciously doing things that comfort themselves throughout the day, either like um tapping a foot or rolling their um ankles, or like I will sometimes, if I'm feeling anxious, go like this with my toes. I'll I'll like smoosh them together and then I'll extend them out like their little fingers and undo that over and over. And so I think that people are um, you know, maybe I think about my children when they were little ones, they would find ways to self-comfort. And very much so the tapping feels like it reminds us to sink back into our bodies that it's gonna be okay. And it's kind of just reminding us. And I'm wondering how did you learn about this technique and where did you get your training?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

So I honestly don't remember where or even when I first came across it, but I do know that for a few years I was very casually sort of doing it on myself. Uh, and I was like, there's something here because I was getting really into subconscious work and subconscious reprogramming and kind of stumbled across this thing. I think I initially stumbled across it in the context of people doing it in a more of an affirmation type way. You know, they'd stand in front of the mirror and tap themselves and say things that they want to believe about themselves. And to know that doesn't actually work very well from now, from my training, what I understand, because you can't give yourself messages that you don't believe.

unknown 13:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

You have to first clear the belief that you, you know, if you want to say, oh, you know, I am a successful business person, do you actually believe that? Take an inventory, right? Give a percentage. How what's the percentage I actually believe that statement? And if honestly, if it's under 100%, you need to go back and say, why don't I believe this 100%? What's what is it I actually believe? Tap on that, clear that, clear the emotions around that. Then once that's resolved and that doesn't feel true anymore, then you can start to incorporate the positive affirmation statements with the tapping, but it's honestly not gonna do like anything for you. If I mean it might make you feel good for temporarily, but long term it's not really gonna settle anything in. So anyway, I was kind of experimenting with the tapping on my own. And then I just had this feeling, I really wanted to incorporate, I was really into human design for a while, and um, I had this idea where you could incorporate tapping to uh uh so in human design, there's this concept of the not-self where you're acting in kind of opposition to your design or um in a not-self way. And it's a little different than a shadow concept, but I won't get into that. Um but I thought, well, maybe you could use tapping to help release some of these not-self feelings or this programming you've had around things. For example, I'm a manifesting generator, and so I'm always really interested in starting things, but I rarely finish because I lose interest very, very quickly. And there's a lot of guilt around that. Like, why can't I finish anything? Why can't I just complete, start something at A and complete it at like Z? Why can't I go through the steps, you know, and and actually do something and complete it? And when I learned about human design, it resonated, that archetype resonated so much with me because I was like, oh, this is how my whole life has been, and I've been fighting it and I've been feeling terrible about myself because that's not how society tells you to be a successful person. And so, just as an example, maybe I could use tapping to release some of that guilt I have around this natural way of being. And I just thought, you know, there's more to this. And I started researching and I came across EFT. And then quickly realized shortly after that that there's um EFT International, which is an official organization. And there are classes you can sign up for and take and get certified in. And a lot of therapists use EFT in conjunction with their practice. You don't have to be a therapist to use EFT, but it's becoming, I think, more mainstream and accepted. And so there's a whole certification process you can go through to get your to kind of become official in tapping. And so I ended up doing, I completed EFT level one, EFT level two, um, and was working toward my accreditation. And in a crazy turn of events, and we can this can actually kind of segue into bird messages, believe it or not. But um I was logging all of my so in order to get your certification after completing level two, you have to log um at least 50 client hours um or 50 sessions, and which includes four case studies. And so it's it's kind of like a rigorous thing. You've got to do it. Yeah, it sounds rigorous. And I was on my way through that, and admittedly, I'm sort of terrible at uh when you're doing the sessions, I'm like keeping notes on the side on paper, because you want to repeat your clients' words back to them exactly when you're facilitating the tapping. You don't want it to be your language, you want it to be their language. And so I keep all these notes, keep track of their intensity levels and everything. And then I would log this in my spreadsheet, try to summarize it for for the certification project process. But admittedly, I was really terrible at keeping up with logging all of my paper. So I'd have this, you know, the stack of paper that I hadn't yet transferred to the computer. And one day I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna sit down, I'm gonna knock it out, hold up in a coffee shop. I was having some issues, I couldn't connect to the internet, but I was like, oh, it'll save to the hard drive. And then I did that. I caught all my notes up, and then I kind of went about my life and kept accumulating more client sessions and more notes on the side that I belatedly would try and enter. And about, I guess it was probably about three weeks ago at this point, I realized that time I sat down in the coffee shop to put in all those notes, that backlog of sessions, it didn't save. And I law like I have the file, but it's really outdated. It I don't have and my deadline was to apply for this certification with all of my case studies and everything was um two days ago. And I was just like, there's no way I'm gonna make this deadline. I can't do it. I lost all of and I took I threw away all the papers, like I burned them because I you know, because I was done. Um and I don't mind retaking EFT level two. That's what I'll have to do, is I'll have to retake the class. But the the pain, the most painful part are the case studies that I lost, um, because that's a big write-up, right? And then also all of the sessions I've done will not count. I'll have to retake the class and then I'll have my guy over from client session one and log, you know, 50 more hours. And so I kind of went through all the feelings, like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

As you can see, Jen, we have another public published author in our midst because uh we've all been there. We have totally. And uh as we segue into birds, um again, Madia is a published author. She wrote a book about birds.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

I did. I wrote a book on how to take care of geese, which is kind of a thing, and I can talk about that a bit too. But I was gonna say it in the midst of all this sort of trauma around who's had trauma huge trauma. I started so for a while now, I've kind of had I've kind of been noticing um woodpeckers a lot, which is tapping, they're tappers, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:50

I literally was gonna segue into birds with woodpeckers. Oh that was the very first bird I saw yesterday when I started logging them.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I see one at least three times a day.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Nice. Yeah. So please go ahead. You've got the floor, but we're blown, we're mind blown right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Okay, yeah. So, and I'll I'll I'll back up a little bit because um I'm actually gonna first talk about the nuthatch, which is related to the the woodenpecker. There, at least according to Ted Andrews. I don't know if you're familiar with his, you know, animal speak book, but uh highly recommend this for uh Oh Jim, that looks like that looks like you're kind of jading out there.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

I get it.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah, I get it. It's great. Um, so I went into our mud room just in time to see a bird like that was trapped in the mud room. It had flown in and couldn't figure out how to get out, and it smacked into the window, right? And I immediately ran over because and I picked it up because and I took it outside because I was like, well, I don't want it to come to in the mud room and then try and get out and put itself on the window again. A lot of time birds are okay once they hit the window. They kind of go through the stunned phase. And then, so if you can just keep them safe while they remain composure.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Don't hurry to bury them, is all I'm telling the public. Don't hurry to bury them. Give them a chance. Put them in shade where they're safe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah. So I had this bird in my hand. And I took it outside to one of the trees we had nearby. And I was gonna, I was hoping it would just kind of step, you know, kind of perch on the tree or or find a way, but it was too stunned. It just kind of stayed in my hand. So I thought, you know what? That's fine. We're just gonna, we're gonna chill here for a bit. And we're just gonna, and it was panting and it didn't look so good. And it took a while, but then all of a sudden it's like it's really interesting, because you it sounds like you've seen this before, Jen, but it's like this light switch. It's they're they're not okay, and then all of a sudden they're perked up and they're like, Oh, I'm still here, I'm still alive. And like and so it flew, it kind of flew past, it kind of brushed my my hair, um, and then it flew back toward the tree, landed in the tree, and just kind of looked at me for a while. And I looked at it, and then immediately, of course, I go into my house to see what kind of bird it was, because even so I'm I know about birds. I mean, there's so many birds. I'm not a birder by any, by any means. You know, there are probably people out there that are really into bird watching that know way more about types and calls and all those things than I do. So I still have to look stuff up. So I went and I looked it up, and so it turns out it was a nuthatch and it's related to the woodpecker. And it's really, it's according to Ted Andrew, it's it symbolizes a grounding of um and uh and also higher wisdom. So it's a really good, in terms of a totem animal, it's a really good animal for a lot of psychics or people that do sort of this higher level liminal space work to help ground themselves, to help them get back into material reality and realize that the physical is really important too. You know, we are physical creatures. Yeah. And that is why, I mean, we're here to experience f physical reality. And it's important to take care of yourself, to take care of your body, to take care of the environment around you. You can't always be floating into ethereal spaces, right? So it's a really good bird for that, but it also says, um, let's see, it's a traveling companion to the woodpecker. Um, it and it has a very similar uh beak, you know, it's kind of long and pointed, it gets bugs out of trees, and it says as new rhythms are sounded out, the nuthatch works to bring them down out of ethereal realms and ground them into physical life. Anyone with a nuthatch has a totem should also study the woodpecker and vice versa. And then the next day, and this is kind of sad, but I walk out the front door and there's two wings and a partial torso of a nuthatch right in front of my door. Which unfortunately I I mean, I think one of our cats got it. I try my best to keep them inside as much as I can. I have bells on them, but they still get burned sometimes. And immediately I felt this like just kind of devastation. I was like, oh man, I hope that wasn't the one I saved. I mean, not that it mattered, I mean it's a death either way, right? But yeah, kind of struggled with this what's the symbolism of the, you know, the disembodied wings in front of my door. And is that a and then shortly after, I actually saw another nuthatch just kind of merrily pecking its way down a tree trunk in our front yard. Uh, they tend to go head first down the trees. So that's a way to kind of identify them, I guess. But anyway, um, between the bird in the mud room that I saved and then the wings in front of my door, and then just kind of noticing them more often, I decided I kind of needed to pay attention to it. And it reminded me to go back to Woodpecker. Yeah. Um that's right, exactly, because they're companions. Right. And there are a lot of animals uh like that where you have one and it's good to look up another. But let me just pull up Woodpecker here. Woodpeckers, I know, are the tapping just timely, but they they it because of their tapping, they have a lot to do with rhythm and drumming, right? And you can even shamanic drumming. Um what does shamanic drumming do? It takes you into your subconscious, right? That's sort of right again, similar to tapping. I mean, we're kind of all these things are related to each other. You've got the beat of the drum and the drumming shamanic systems that take you into your subconscious in order to go on this spiritual journey into liminal spaces, right? And then you have physical tapping that kind of helps you move through more physical processes. Woodpecker is often considered a weather prophet um in European folk tradition. That's interesting, too. Tapping kind of forecasts almost like a thunderbird, right? You can think of them as a um a type of thunderbird. We tend to think of thunderbirds as being more eagles or hawks, or in my opinion, I always think of vultures because they ride the um what are they called? The air the wind currents. Yeah, the wind currents uh before it stormed, you can see them circling. And in uh Native American tradition, it's considered the tapping is considered to be the heartbeat of the earth itself. Wow. And so this is and this is from Ted Andrews, so I'm not gonna take credit for this, but he asks these questions when you see woodpecker come into your life. Says if woodpecker has drummed out a song for you, then you should ask yourself some specific questions. Are you looking at aspects of your life rationally? Are others around you not discriminating in their activities? Are you? Are you or others in your life just jumping into situations with little or no analysis? Sometimes the woodpecker will show up to stimulate new rhythms. Rhythm is a powerful means for affecting physical energies. It's easy to get wrapped up in our daily mental and spiritual activities that we neglect the physical. Again, that's kind of the same as the hatch, right? And so sometimes when we're wrapped up in that more ethereal realm, woodpecker will show up to remind us that we've neglected the physical. But yeah, about the rhythm, just like I think of a woodpecker, like the rhythms of life. Yeah, that heartbeat of the earth, like very grounded. You're kind of getting into the rhythm of physical, of the physical material reality and paying attention to that.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

I'm staying with that, what I thought about immediately when you were when you when you got on the when you were talking about the tapping and like that, how that is like you're connecting to your body and for instance. If you think about it, when the woodpecker is tapping on a tree, okay, they've identified all of the how all the trees are are interconnected with each other through their root systems that and they're vast, you know what I mean? And now, just recently, like the last couple I read the article like a week ago or something, that there's also like a huge underground fungal like network that's that runs along with that. So it as you as you tap on yourself, your body, you know what I mean? They're tapping on the tree, and the tree is connected to the whole earth in a way, if you think about it, you know? So it's kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

That that's theory when it's doing that, it's shaking loose stuff, it's it's an alert system of like, I'm here, it's like a warning system, but it's also a shaking loose. And if people out there, because I feel like I need to mention this because it keeps happening to me. The woodpecker came forward with me when I started getting into a cycle of like, maybe I get I would dip a toe in the news or current events, and I would forget that it's not real. Don't believe the mainstream stuff because none of it's real. And I would get caught up in that instead of into all the stuff that actually matters. And when I was trying to break that habit, it was woodpecker that would go tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap really loud on my like the flu to my chimney, and it would echo throughout the house and it would just like startle me. Or yesterday, um, me and Jesse were in a text thread and I was like exercising, and right there on the the side of my house, the woodpecker came and was like tapping on the eve really loud. And I went, he needs that too. And so I made him a personal podcast where I put it all on blast of like, I know this because I went through this, but Woodpecker wakes me up and gets me out of something that's toxic, is what Jen calls it a text thread, but it was really an intervention where she was talking me off the ledge about that stuff because I let it get in my I let it, I let the I let I can't lose another beloved friend.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

I let it get into my head sometimes. I just can't, like uh yeah, and then she and then and then I I I was like, okay, I'm getting off every I'm going outside, and then it's you know, it had just stormed a little bit, and then like yeah, what's out? All the woodpeckers, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Find your new rhythm, find a new thing going, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

You know, the other thing that resonates with me is like Jesse, with your explanation of reminding people of the fungal world underneath our feet and how it's connected to the tree. So as above, so below kind of thing. You know what do some people say? They say touch when you're kind of feeling spun out, touch brass or hug a tree. I mean, Woodpecker is saying tap on a tree. I mean, what a powerful magic that is. Tap go out and hug a tree and maybe give it a little rap and find a new rhythm.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, yeah, I love that idea.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I do have to connect to the earth, you know what I mean? When like when you were talking about doing a tapping on yourself and talking about like the ankles are a point for that and stuff. I'm like, that's where you are that's where we're supposed to connect to like when when they when they literally tell you like you need to go outside and touch grass, like that's that that's what you're supposed to be, you know, supposed to go out and like literally like touch grass and that's your fit, you know.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

And so wow. Oh, a woodpecker just keeps on delivering. I wanted to ask you because I saw a ton of morning doves yesterday. Is there anything about morning doves? Because they seem ominous with their name, morning dove, but I've been seeing a lot of them lately, which has been really interesting, but I don't want to overlay any symbolism to them because I just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

I have two that are uh that are paired up and just always in my yard.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

You know, I have two also lately, and then I've had a third that has joined the group, and I don't know anything about them.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

I get cardinals, the occasional blue jay, and uh um you know, and woodpeckers now are back and everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Jesse, do you get magpies in East Texas? Because we have magpies.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

They look like crows, but we call them so they're like they call them uh Texas cowbirds. Oh, I think they're they're like little, they're like little miniature crows. But yeah, they they like to eat all the food that I put out. So wow. Because I'm old now and like that's what I do. I go too. I bitch about the world and I like throw the bird, you know, I'm like, here, birds.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Don't give them toxic feed. What you need to say, I love you. I give you a big thing. Here's my blessing, and then give it to them.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Oh no, I mean, I'm not really doing that. I'm just making a joke about being the old man on his porch, like, get off.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

I know, because I know it's not true.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

Yeah, so Madia, what do you know about morning doves? So, off the top of my head, I don't know really anything.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Um, I'm referring to Ted Andrews' Animal Speak book because he has a whole section on there on birds, and uh the dove is in there. So uh yeah, highly recommend the book just as a time.

SPEAKER_05 35:19

I will have it in the show notes for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Um so it'll be sitting on our dining room table in like a three days.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna go my witchy store in Denver.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Right?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, so it's um they're symbolic maternity, peace, uh, prophecy, feminine energy, um, definitely. To the Pueblo Indians, and we're on ancient Puebloan land here. That mournful song, that mourning song, uh, is considered an invocation to water. And this is interesting, an indication to men where water could be found. But the ancient symbol for the maternal is always that connection to the water as well.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So its song actually signified water holes or springs, uh, which that's super interesting to me. That is so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Oh wow, because like you're you're you're not like and you're not saying that you're like some expert on like every bird. But like the buttia, I think your main thing is like it is water birds, right? Like it is geese and stuff and ducks that like kind of like you found an egg, right? Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yep, that's how my whole journey was.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

You're already like so smitten. I just love this conversation and uh Maudia. I already love your energy, but okay, I I'm gonna sit back. Tell me about the egg.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

So the whole journey begins as it does with an egg. Uh, you know, all of creation, the universe began with an egg, right? The great cosmic egg. So this is my own little cosmic egg story. And I've actually written two parts on Substack about the cosmic egg. I decided I wanted to like go into delving uh into all this different mythology around the cosmic age, because every culture, every mythology has something around an egg at the beginning of time. And that's very interesting to me. Um anyway, I've only written two parts because whenever I say I'm gonna do a series, I immediately start to lose interest or it feels like a huge burden. I'm like, oh my gosh, what a trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Welcome to my world. So tell yourself that things are a series and like you'll write all of them. Same. I know it's like, oh, it's like, yeah, I'm done writing about these birds this time, these eggs, cosmic eggs, and then you'll write another one. Yeah. Part one, something, like you're screwed. Like you're scared. You are oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Like listeners are interested in reading this story.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Just never forget that Hollow Notes put out their greatest hits album, part one, and there was never a part two. Okay, that makes me feel funny. But you know, so much better too. Rock and soul, there was only a part one. There was never a part two. So there you go. Even Hollow Notes gave up. So don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Okay, so my egg story. Uh, we had recently moved from the front range area, that's Denver Boulder area in Colorado. Um, I know you're familiar. That's where I'm at right now. Yeah. Uh down to the southwest corner of Colorado, um, Four Corners area. So we'd recently moved here, um, acquired this property. We have we have a pond, and we were up at this pond in April. It was, I remember it was still kind of cold, and my husband sees something on the shore. Um, the water was pretty low because we were coming out of winter and everything, and just on the silty bank, there's this lone egg sitting there. And my husband got very excited. And it wasn't in a nest, it wasn't, you know, no dog, you know, no birds around, but um just out there in the elements, out in the open. My husband gets excited and he goes and collects his egg and he kind of cradles it close to his torso and he comes over and he shows me, he's like, Look what I found. And I was like, Cool, an egg. Um and he's like he's like, I think we should keep it warm. I said, But you think that's gonna hatch? I was so incredulous. He goes, Yeah, we we need to keep it warm. And he gave me this egg to keep warm while he goes down to the local farm store to get an incubator. And this whole time I'm thinking, this is not gonna hatch, but I will indulge my husband because this is you're at you're literally at the very first part of the hero's journey.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

You're not supposed to be all on board yet. You know, you're you're at the call to adventure, okay? So exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

And I was not a bird person at this time. I mean, I I didn't know anything about anything really. Um anyway, to make kind of a long story short, we ended up incubating this egg. You know, we looked up how to rotate the egg and what percentage humidity to set it at and all these things. And lo and behold, 28 days later, well, I'll back up a little bit. So you you can candle eggs, right? Which is essentially not actually using a candle, you use the flashlight to kind of shine through the egg so you can see what's happening inside, which is its own fascinating because you start so the first thing you start to see is this network of veins. And then you start to see a heartbeat. And it's like the most bizarre, like it's the craziest thing. I mean, if you ever want to be just renew your wonder about life, I'm not saying go hatch an egg because we want to be responsible of like that egg will hatch into a living creature, like to take care of it. But but if you ever have the opportunity to even look up some images of the inside of an egg or videos of people candling eggs and seeing the process of the development inside the egg, it's fascinating. And so that was a whole sort of journey in itself, the sort of miracle of just watching this heartbeat. And then after a while, it developed so much that you can't really see anything anymore because the egg is full, right? And of bone and tissue and like all the things, right? And um anyway, and lo and behold, 28 days later, this egg hatches, and out comes this fuzzy little bird, waterfowl, you know, little webbed, black webbed feet and and cute little, you know, fuzzy, downy uh feathers, and and we still didn't know anything about birds, so we thought it was a goose. Because we had two Canada geese up by our pond that were there all the time. And we saw ducks occasionally, but they didn't really hang around. And so we just sort of leapt to the conclusion that maybe it was and I had no a mallard duck egg is so much smaller than a Canada goose egg. It blows my mind that we even you didn't know. You didn't know. We didn't know how you don't know. Yeah. Um, but it's funny looking back on it, um, given now that I've written a book about caring for geese and like have become the sort of unofficial waterfowl expert. It's really funny to think back, you know, seven, eight years ago when this started. Anyway, it took us about three days to finally just search for, you know, what does a Canada gosling look like versus what does a baby mallard look like? And we realized we had a baby mallard. Um, and also learned very quickly that even though he had imprinted on us, they really need a lot of attention and they really need other birds. So we got him a couple other duckling friends and with the understanding that we named him Tiger. Um it was just a really special experience because he was so attached to us. He'd follow us everywhere. We make him little little baths in the sink in the bathtub, you know, sprinkle the bits of clover and you know, things that the ducks like to eat. And but he was uh we kept him safe while he was developing, but the you he he's wild, so yeah, always free to go. You know, we never intended to to keep him. Um, and once he got his wings, um, you know, he would take flights around and um eventually he he would spend kind of longer and longer away from the property until one day, maybe four or five years into keeping him, you know, he just never came back. And unfortunately, I I kind of feel like that maybe means he's crossed the rainbow bridge. But um I like to think maybe he's just found a mallard girlfriend somewhere that prefers to have her nest at a different location than our property. But um, but anyway, this finding of the egg and this hatching of this little duckling really just started this journey with me. I bet uh yeah. So wow.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

It allows it literally gave birth to this new part of your life.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Yeah, yeah. Um wow.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

And if you're a curious person, a spiritual person, and you know, into like you know, all of the things that like we're interested in, like how could that not how could you not go down that to pick another animal, that rabbit hole, that duck hole? How could you not go down that duck hole to uh figure out about ducks, you know? So true.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah. And you know, it still took me a while to get into the spiritual aspect of birds. Um, you know, I started keeping geese. We have an apple orchard, and I wanted an animal that was really gentle to kind of help clean up under the trees and graze. And so because we had this positive experience with this duck, I decided to try out some geese and um and ended up being kind of known for geese um very unintentionally, uh, just through through Instagram and sort of various connections and locally and um and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Because who doesn't want to suddenly become the goose lady? You know what I mean? On Instagram. Mother Goose. I mean the new mother goes. I'd be cool at that if everybody's like, yeah, he's the goose lady. Yeah, I'd be like, all right, cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

And geese are kind of stigmatized. People say they're so mean or something. And I'm like, uh, you get what you give. I feel like if you're expecting that, uh if you approach a goose with fear and anxiety, they feel that it bothers me people stigmatizing geese as certain ways.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Well, the thing to understand about geese, even wild geese, this goes for both wild geese and domestic geese, is that they are extremely protective and family-oriented. So when a goose is acting aggressive toward you, it's because they're protecting their flock. And it's not because they're mean, it's because they're protective. They're very, very geese are very family-oriented, they're very flock-oriented. In fact, when our geese would hatch out, you know, goslings, it wasn't just the two parents that watched after them. The whole flock would surround these gosslings and protect them. And so they're yeah, they're very protective creatures. And even the ones I raised by hand that liked me, um, they would get not happy when I got too close to their offspring, right? You know, during the spring season when the ganders, that's male geese, uh, would get a little more hormonal and testy. And you know, it's really tempting to just kind of write them off and be like, oh, they're so mean. But when you understand that they have they have this just such a strong uh protective drive and this loyalty, this um attachment to their mate. Most geese will mate for life, especially Canada geese. Domestic geese, it's kind of it can they'll definitely stay together for a season. Some stay together for lifetime, but it it just varies. It's not uh there's not a rule around that with domestics. But uh anyway, they're very loyal. And so, yeah, I would just say to people out in the park, if you see wild geese and they seem a little aggressive, just know that it's not because they're trying to be mean, it's because you've gotten a little too close. And if you see the way people interact with geese at the pond, they're not nice. They let their children chase them. I know they get harassed. You know, it's not they've learned to not trust a lot of us very well, you know. Yes. We have wild Canada geese here at our property and they are very friendly. I mean, they don't like come up and let me pet them, and they're wary, but they, I mean, yeah, they're they're fine. I think that people yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

We're probably about to say the same thing is that I think people have lost sight that it's like it's us going into their world and inserting ourselves into their world. We don't okay, we're the smartest monkeys, great. No, we're not, but like whatever, but people think you know what I mean, but I mean like it, but we're we're we're still just other other animals, like and we're supposed to be coexisting with nature and not consistently like, yeah, like we can just go wherever and do whatever we want to, and you know, it's I I think people like you said, I think that that you push that energy in, you know, and then they're gonna react as they're supposed to react. Well, because you're a threat.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

And also, I like I was gonna say something similar, but it's different. It's like the tap root of that issue is that people need to be responsible for their energies. You need to own your energy and what you're bringing out there in every instance, whether it's with a goose, whether it's with a deer on the hiking trail, whether it's with your fellow human at the grocery store or whatever. I think that at some point people like feel like they don't have to be responsible for their own energy. And actually, you do. Like, uh, if people could take responsibility for their own energy and what they're putting out there and what they're taking, uh, then maybe we would have a little more peaceful um existence with everything, with plants, with animals, with each other. Uh, it's a very simple thing, but I think that people have kind of forgotten or lost sight of it or are ignoring it.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

So, how many video, how many videos are out there of dumb people who get too close to animals trying to take a selfie? You know what I mean? And exactly, what do you expect's about to happen? You know, it's uh yeah, coexist and uh quit taking so many dumb selfies.

SPEAKER_04 50:55

No kidding, and also feeling like you're some apex predator. Oh my god, we are not the be-all and end all. We're not, we're we're also stewards of the planet. We just happen to be the loudest megaphone often, and that's not a good thing. So I always find it um when I'm on the hiking trail, I always find it as the best compliment of what my energy is, is like I'm trying to be really immersed in the place that I'm at and and tread gently. And when I will be on a trail, I will have a deer that sees me, and I will be, I forget, but I'm always singing or humming to whatever I'm listening to with one earbud, and it will be coming close to me, like, hello, I see you. And I'm like, I love you. I'm sending you love. I hope you find good sustenance on the mountain, and it's coming over to me, and then you'll see it like a mountain biker thunder through, and then the you know, the deer stays still and doesn't go anywhere. But I always find it as a compliment of like I'm checking my energy often um that I am in harmony with what I'm out there experiencing. If it's not changing me, why am I out there hiking then? It's supposed to be that I'm changing the rhythm of my own life by going out on the trail. So yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 52:13

I get so mad when people are like doing the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Like, ah well, there's nothing being out in nature is can be so humbling too, right? It's a great way to check yourself, your uh that that idea that we have that we're yeah, this apex creature on the planet when we're just not. I mean, all you have to do is climb up a mountain a little ways and get be caught in a mountain thunderstorm to realize that the earth does not give a shit about you. Exactly. The the lightning does not care that you can like use social media. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Like you're not an apex predator, Ken and Karen. You live in a gated community, okay?

SPEAKER_04 53:01

Yeah, well, and and not even to mention the elementals that are out there that are so much more powerful than us.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

They're just you have to see the manager when you go get a smoothie because they don't put enough raspberries on top. You're not a fucking apex predator, you're not back up.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Absolutely not. No, or stare down a mountain lion or a bear and realize that you don't, yeah. You're nothing.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Which are you familiar with the with the demon turkey called the tetragib?

SPEAKER_00 53:33

I am not, although I've been wanting, I saw it pop up a few times on Substance.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

It's it and I need to want I need to listen to Bosnian Bosnian evil turkey. So uh yes.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

I swear I have seen this gigantic Jesse. You disappeared, so you touched your mouse. Yeah, I know. But I I have seen this gigantic pigeon on the trails in certain parts of uh like Golden Lakewood. I point behind me because it's right there. Um, but I have seen these gigantic, they're like emperor pigeons or something. I've seen them in Florida and I've seen them a few times here too, and it always surprises me.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

It's like you're so gigantic, and it reminds me of that that bird that you're so scared of, Jesse.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

I mean, have you have you heard Anna Maria tell the stories of being attacked by the tetra chip? It's a it's it it's it's it's it's horrible. No joke. It's horrible.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Yeah, it's no joke. We are so small. Okay, I'm looking at the clock because we made a vow to you, Mahdia, that we would let you shake loose in an hour. So um, going back to your EFT um skills and the bird scrying skills, it where do you want our listeners to find you? And are you doing sessions? Do you do them physically in person? Do you do anything remote? Where can they find your book and your Substack and all that good stuff?

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Right now, probably the best way to find me is on Substack, and I can get you to my links and maybe I can link to a couple um pertinent because I have a lot of art. All my whole Substack is on birds and myths. So it's all about birds, but there are a few specific articles that are specifically about bird divination, um, using birds in ornitomancy, or as our friend Sam likes to say birdomancy, which I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Sam did coin the term birdomancy the other night, which uh I mean it is definitely yeah, but yes, please send us any link.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

You'll just have to come back. Oh, I would love to anytime we can do birds part two, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

I know we we Jen, we learned so much today.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

No, I'm so excited to commute with nature right now. I actually want to go out and try to find some garbage on the trail. Just don't call this part one, or there won't be a part two.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

That's right. Exactly. This is uh we we did this never happening ever again.

SPEAKER_04 56:01

So yeah, well, we love you and thank you for coming by for a really long form visit. And really, we cannot wait to have you back already. Yeah, this was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

Thank you. Love you so much. Bye.